Presented on July 11, 2013
In this webinar, Search Mojo’s Kari Rippetoe and Todd Wickersty, Co-founder of Storyware, discuss how to blog for business, some of the barricades to effective business blogging, and how marketers can benefit from the right platforms and processes to turn their blogs into a lean, mean, inbound marketing machine.
Presenters: Kari Rippetoe, Content Marketing Manager, Search Mojo and Todd Wickersty, Co-founder, Storyware
Presented on July 11, 2013
Hello everyone, welcome and thank you for coming to today’s webinar: Blogging’s Biggest Challenges and How to Overcome Them. I’m Alex Katzen, Public Relations Manager at Search Mojo and I’ll be serving as your moderator at today’s webinar.
Before we get started, I just have a few reminders. There will be a Q&A at the end of today’s webinar, so if you have any questions for our presenters, please enter them in the go to webinars questions box at the right of your screen. Also, as always we are recording this webinar and once the full recording is available, you will receive a follow-up email, which is usually by Monday at the latest.
Finally, we encourage you to tweet about today’s presentation any interesting insights or takeaways you’d like to share. If you do, please use the hashtag mojo webinar, plus you can also follow us on Twitter @searchmojo. Now, I’d like to introduce you to today’s presenters.
Kari Rippetoe is Content Marketing Manager at Search Mojo, helping clients develop compelling content pieces for search optimization and lead generation. She is a HubSpot Inbound Marketing Certified Professional, Honors Distinction with over 12 years’ experience with search, social media, e-mail, and content marketing. After studying marketing and communications at the University of Texas, San Antonio, Kari went on to managing online marketing strategies and campaigns for a variety of companies and organizations including Liquidity Services Incorporated and the National Trust for Historic Preservation.
Todd Wickersty is the co-founder and CMO of Storyware. A company focused on helping content creators tell their stories better online with tools, themes and strategy. Todd has worked for large and small businesses within the IT sector since 1998 for Accenture, AOL and Music Today. He became an entrepreneur in 2005 when he founded the web design and developed shop, Business Bullpen. His latest endeavor, Storyware has helped The Home Depot, Virgin Atlantic, Tim McGraw and Dave Matthews with their storytelling initiative.
Search Mojo was founded in 2005 and specializes in all things search marketing including SEO, pay per click, social media advertising, online reputation management, and content marketing.
Search Mojo is headquartered in Charlottesville, Virginia and we also have an office in Charleston, South Carolina. We’ve been featured in several marketing applications and blogs and we also speak at several conferences, including SMX, MarketingProfs, B2B Forum and PubCon. Our clients include a variety of B2B and consumer brands, non-profit organizations and educational institutions.
Beginning in 2007, Storyware was on a short list of flagship developers to work with and build one of the first Facebook page applications. They are one of only a dozen Tumblr A-list partners across the world and produce premium Tumblr themes. They have years of experience building robust solutions on top of WordPress, Twitter and LinkedIn for content creators. They also create brand new tools and original applications and work with brands on their content strategy for the social web. Here are a few of the clients Storyware currently works with.
Before we begin, I’m going to start off with a poll. Do you currently have a blog for your company? It looks like the majority of you do not have a blog right now. With that I’m going to go ahead and turn things over to Kari to get started.
Great. Thank you very much, Alex. Many of you may be asking yourself this question right here. Why blog? What is all the hype about blogging and what could I possibly get out of it for my business?
Well let’s first talk about the concept of content marketing, which I’m sure many of you have heard about already. Content marketing, it’s really pretty hot right now and Joe Pulizzi from Content Marketing Institute, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the Content Marketing Institute, but he will tell you that it’s actually been around a long time, and I don’t just mean a long time in Internet years either.
The example he usually likes to point to, and it’s a really great example of content marketing is The Furrow and this is a magazine that John Deere has been publishing since 1895. They’ve been doing this for 117 years. They still publish this magazine to this day as a resource for their customers and it’s not all about John Deere. It’s about the customers. It’s providing information that they can use and like I say, they still publish it to this day on their website and as an e-magazine.
Content marketing, point being there is really nothing new, but the way that digital marketing has evolved over the last five years or so to really emphasize the importance of social media combined with major changes in the last couple of years to Google’s indexing algorithms have really brought content marketing to the forefront. More and more savvy marketers are starting to realize the importance of content marketing and we’re seeing more marketers including it in their marketing strategy and more marketers who are allocating resources to it. These are just a few of the stats that show just how important content marketing is becoming to marketers all over the world now.
Blogging as a content marketing tactic is successful for marketers as well and HubSpot’s 2013 State of Inbound Marketing Report shows that consistent blogging and the sweet spot here looks like it’s once a day, boosts inbound marketing are a lie. When I refer to inbound marketing, it means marketing tactics that are designed to attract prospects and customers who are looking for the kinds of solutions your company offers and this is where blogging becomes so important, especially when it comes to SEO.
Now I’m going to talk about some of those benefits that you can enjoy, SEO benefits that you can enjoy from blogging. First, Google loves content. You can think of Google like the cookie monster and C is for content, but not just any content. Google’s panda algorithm date which was first released in 2011 basically put the [kibosh] on what they refer to as low quality sites or thin content, meaning that sites with high quality original content rose to the top.
So if you’re creating fresh, high quality, useful content for your prospects and customers and creating it on a consistent basis, then that’s the stuff that Google really likes and it’s just like freshly made, freshly baked chocolate chip cookies. Those are awesome, right? Those are a heck of a lot better than stale cookies. The fresh content is much, much better than stale content. You want to keep it fresh and blogs are a really easy way to create that fresh content that Google loves so much. How does Google actually decide if a piece of content is of high enough quality?
That’s where social sharing comes in and this is actually a very recent. According to search metrics, social signals count for seven of the eight ranking factors most highly correlated with Google search results. I give you the caveat. Correlation does not necessarily mean causation and that’s what search metrics will tell you as well with this report.
However, this is what they have found, that they are very highly correlated with Google search results. You can see here, things like Google+ one’s, Facebook shares, comments and tweets are very highly correlated to search results. That means that social sharing factors significantly into how a piece of content ranks.
A third SEO benefit of blogging is something called authorship, which is a type of rich snippet and this is something that we’ve actually been talking a lot about lately, rich snippets and the short explanation of what they are and specifically what authorship is, is a way to contribute a piece of content such as a blog post to a specific author in search results. You can see in the first example up at the top there that Danny Sullivan’s photo is shown as a thumbnail next to a Google search result for his author profile on search engine land.
Then, the second example you can see a search result for a blog post that I wrote on Search Mojo’s blog and you see the same thumbnail of my photo next to that. This is how that looks on the actual search results page, and the blog post with my photo has a top ranking, plus my posts on Google+ that is promoting that same blog post is ranked six, while Search Mojo’s Google+ post about it ranks right behind that.
Those thumbnails appearing next to those search results actually give those results a little bit more credibility and they draw more eyeball. You notice them quicker. Even those six and seventh place results could get more clicks than the results above it. In fact, this is an eye tracking study that shows where people are looking on a search results page and you can see that fourth entry there that’s boxed in purple has a rich snippet. It actually got more visibility than even the top listing.
We can see that it increases; rich snippets increase the visibility for organic listings even if they are not the top listing. This is a major SEO benefit that comes with blogging since you can use the authorship rich snippet for your blog posts.
Now all of this is well and good, but many of you might be thinking well, content marketing and blogging, it’s just not as easy as it seems and you’re absolutely right. I am right there with you, because I do it too. Content marketing ain’t easy.
In fact, marketers’ biggest challenge is producing enough content. That’s according to a recent content marketing institute bench marking report. That is the number one challenge that marketers have, is producing enough, but at this point what I’d like to do is ask that question of you and I’m going to pass it over to Alex and she’s going to poll you for the second time today during the webinar.
Thank you, Kari. For the second poll for today, what is your biggest challenge with blogging? Not enough time, not enough employee resources, not sure of the results or not seeing results from blogging, unsure what to write about, or other type of challenge? Looks like most of you said not enough employee resources. Now I’m going to hand it back to Kari.
Great. Thank you so much. That’s not surprising actually, being that that’s one of your biggest challenges, not enough employee resources. That’s something where you can employ some really useful processes to get you on the right track and to help you organize your blogging time and so I’m going to go through a step by step process to help you make your blogging more efficient and more effective.
Step one. It’s important to establish the reasons why you want to blog in the first place. If you have goals in mind, then it’s going to make it a lot easier to get started with blogging. You want to think of the specific goals you want to achieve by blogging. Is it to maybe build credibility and leadership in your industry for individual authors or your company as a whole? Is it to generate awareness and leads or sales or is it to build an industry resource?
There’s so many different things that you can do with a blog, but you must first have your goals in mind, otherwise you won’t really know how best to proceed and that would be not just the long term goals, but the short term ones as well. That’s the first thing you want to think about.
If you’re blogging for your business, you should also think about how blogging is going to tie back to the business and help you to achieve your business goals. You’ll want to think in terms of long term, as I mentioned and short term. You might have a goal of getting more customers from your blog and that’s maybe more of a long term goal, but a short term goal might be to increase your social media following, but you’ll also want to ask yourself as you’re setting your blogging goals if they make sense for your business and if they’re actually attainable.
I was actually thinking recently of a local coffee shop as an example. They ultimately want to get more customers in the door at their physical location, but is blogging going to help them achieve that goal? It may or may not, but these are the source of questions that you would really need to ask yourselves.
The next step is to think about what you’re going to post about and now that you have your goals outlined for your blog, you can start to brainstorm the kinds of posts that you want to write to ultimately achieve those goals. At this point, you really don’t need to start thinking of specific topics, however you can start to get an idea of what kinds of posts you should write about. That will get you half the way there.
As you’re doing this, a really helpful tool you can use is something called the mind map, and this is an example of one here that I’ve created that outlines different types of blog posts that we might write for the Search Mojo blog. I created this using a free tool called Bubbl.us and you can see the URL there down in the corner.
As you can see, I have some high level blog posts types like webinar blog posts, general observations, resources, etc. and then I’ve broken out some subtopics from those, so that’s a really good starting point to help you get an ideal of what you want to write about.
Then you’ll want to think about the actual topics that you’ll be writing about and really, the sky is the limit, but definitely think about how your blog posts tie back to your business. Again, you always have to remember your blogging goals.
Here are some possible ideas that you can consider. Answer some of your customers’ questions. Marcus Sheridan is The Sales Lion and he blogs at thesaleslion.com and he’s a huge proponent for blogging and content marketing in general, and he will say this over and over again. If you’re not sure what to write about in your blog, answer your customer’s questions. Really, no better way or easier way than to write posts that will undoubtedly tie back to your business, because you’re helping to solve your customers’ problems.
Another idea is to make announcements and this could be a sale, it could be a new product or feature, it could be a new location. Anything that you would want to announce to the public. Any other way that you would be promoting that, it’s a blog post.
List posts are very popular. You’ve probably seen hundreds of blog posts with lists. In fact, I posted one yesterday that was a list of blogging statistics and this is because readers generally love these posts. As I said, they’re a really easy way to aggregate content together into a congruent blog post that is relevant to your audience.
Blog posts don’t have to be a 500 word essay. Sometimes they can just consist of a compelling photo or video with some minimal expository text and in fact, Todd is going to be touching on this coming up shortly when I pass it over to him, but the point here is that videos and photos can make very good blog posts just by themselves.
You could also write posts that give a step by step how to, of how to do something. If you’re blogging for a bank for example, you might provide a step by step on how to apply for a home loan, or if you’re blogging for a university, you might want to write a post showing incoming freshman how to prepare for their first year in college.
These are just a few ideas, just to kind of get you started. Like I mentioned, the sky is the limit, so you can really let your creativity run wild to write what you think will resonate with your audience.
The third step is to determine who is going to write all of these posts. Now, here at Search Mojo, I consider myself very lucky in that we have a lot of folks here on staff who have knowledge in a variety of areas pertaining to online marketing. They all contribute to our blog and we’re able to post roughly three to five times a week.
However, and this is just from your poll answers right before I started this section, I realized that not every business has a staff of people who are all willing and able to blog. You’ll need to think about the resources you have available to you, which will also help to set the bar for how often you’re able to post, which I’ll talk about shortly. What you really want to think about, mainly if you have more than just a few people on your staff is who has knowledge in what area and will their knowledge help you to achieve those blog business goals?
For example, let’s go back to our previous example of blogging for a bank or a financial services company. You might have someone on staff who has expertise with home loans and someone else who knows a lot about retirement accounts and another person who has knowledge about maybe investment banking. Those are the sorts of resources that you should be tapping into to write for your blog.
The fourth step is to decide when and how often you’ll be writing blog posts. Now, as I mentioned before, the resources you have available will help you to determine how often you’re able to post and you might just be a one person shop and I’m sure many of you are. In which case, you would be the only person blogging, but in that case something that you could consider doing is opening your blog to guest posts. That will certainly help you to bear that load and that’s something that I won’t go into today, but it’s probably worth a blog post in the near future.
What will really help you out at this stage of the process is an editorial calendar where you can record for each date in the calendar the topics you plan to write about. In the example you see here, you can also see a column for important dates, so you can include holidays, special promotions or sales or any other important dates that you may want to plan blog posts for.
You can also include columns for the author of the posts if you have more than one person writing, as well as brief abstracts or notes to kind of jog your memory on what you are going to be writing or what the directions of the posts should be.
This editorial calendar actually comes from Content Marketing Institute. I love them as a resource. They are great for me as a content marketing manager. They have a great editorial calendar template in Excel and the URL there, the bitly URL is where you can grab that template from them.
A major part of the process when you make the decision to start blogging is what blogging platform you’re going to use and I’m going to be passing it over to Todd Wickersty to tell you more about what platforms are available to you, but first I believe Alex has our final poll for today.
Thank you, Kari. All right, let’s go on to the third poll. What blogging platforms are you currently using? Blogger, Tumblr, WordPress, other or we’re not using anything right now. It looks like the majority of you are currently using WordPress. With that, I’m going to go ahead and pass it off to Todd.
Okay, so about eight to ten years ago, this is what blogging was like when it began to achieve popularity outside of [inaudible 22:46]. It was labor intensive. Not only did you have to take the time to write an article or essay, you had to deal with technical issues such as slow connections and clunky interfaces. You were also typically chained to your desk or a laptop.
Now the experience is much more enjoyable. Not only to publish content, but also to consume it. Eight to ten years ago, most of us relied on email and surfing the Web to find content. Some of us started using RSS and Google Reader or IP for Google Reader, but thanks to the technical advancements in mobile and social networks like Twitter, [read later] services like [inaudible 23:28], reading and consuming blogs is much more easier and fun.
Publishing a blog is also much easier than it used to be. First of all, blogging is no longer just about writing essays and articles. Using photography, videos and audios such as pod casts can get your point across just as well. The tools that are out there now are much more robust and user friendly than they used to be. Three of the most popular blogging tools today that we pulled you about are Tumblr, WordPress and Blogger and I plan to dive into each one of them over the next few minutes.
Let’s start with the oldest of the three platforms and that’s Blogger. Launched during the days of Y2K, Blogger has been credited for helping to popularize the blogging format. One of the co-founders is Evan Williams who also co-founded Twitter. Google purchased Blogger in 2003.
Coincidentally, Williams is also behind one of the more recent blogging platforms that at this point is still invite only, but gaining popularity and that’s called [inaudible 24:29]. I encourage you to check that out. Back to Blogger. It’s free and it’s a hosted solution, meaning you don’t have to find another company to host your blog when using your blog.
WordPress, which as I saw from the poll is the most used among the audience and is probably the most well known blogging platform of this day. It was launched just about over 10 years ago. While it launched as a blogging platform, it’s much more than that now. WordPress is used to power thousands of websites as a content management system.
Even further, WordPress can be used as a platform developer for additional features and functionalities for each site. For example, my company has built a membership database with WordPress which is accessed and used on a members [inaudible 25:18] portion of a website.
There are two main options for WordPress. Number one, there’s the WordPress software which I refer to as the self hosted version, and the second option is wordpress.com. WordPress.org is the home for the self hosted version. In order to use the self hosted version, you must download, install and have another company host WordPress. The process as WordPress posted on the website takes less than five minutes and it really does.
The self hosted version is for those of you who want to do things yourself, or if you decide to hire another company design your blog. It offers a lot of flexibility, since you have access to source code. Given that, wordpress.org also contains a wealth of information and support forums to help the millions of people who use the self hosted version.
WordPress.com is WordPress’ hosted option, like Blogger. You don’t have to download and install your blog at wordpress.com. Everything is taken care of for you there. WordPress.com comes with a lot of features, so it’s a great option, but it doesn’t have as much flexibility and options as the self hosted version.
Tumblr is the new kid on the block. It’s six years old and was just purchased by Yahoo. Tumblr has achieved phenomenal growth over the past three years and the term Tumblr is now searched more than the term blog on Google. Like the others, Tumblr is free and hosting is taken care of by them.
Unlike the other platforms, Tumblr launched part blogging platform as part social network. It is most popular among the 18-34 age demographic. We are seeing a lot more brands embracing and launching blogs on Tumblr over the last six to nine months. Tumblr can be used like the other platforms as your primary blog, but many brands and bloggers launch a blog on Tumblr focused on one topic. For example, NPR has eight Tumblr blogs in counting.
The million dollar question is which one should you choose? That really depends on your needs and your requirements. All three do a great job with the basics of publishing content, but you might need more than that.
When it comes to features and flexibility, you can’t beat the self hosted version of WordPress. Since you have the code and the database, you can do almost anything with it and many developers have. WordPress is open source. Because of that, web designers and developers have breached thousands of plugins and themes that you can add to the WordPress software.
Plugins provide additional functionality, such as photo galleries, contact forms, or even help with SEO configuration. Themes are the design templates. There are lots of free themes available and really good ones and there’s pinning things as well, which typically cost somewhere between $30 and $80 on average. Since third party designers and developers can build upon the WordPress software, the options to customize your blog are much more robust than Blogger, Tumblr and wordpress.com.
For those of you who are new to Tumblr, you might have heard that it’s good for posting photos and, that’s true. Tumblr is a highly effective tool for blogs that use visual content to communicate their stories. Given lower attention spans and the never ending amount of content on the web, using photos and videos are a great way to capture attention.
The most effective posts on Tumblr start with a photo, video, infographic or animated gif, followed by two to three paragraphs of copy. Visual content captures the attention of the audience enough so that they read the supporting text. This is a much more effective format on Tumblr than posting the copy without any visual content. Many Tumblr themes are geared towards visual content because of this.
Posting to a blog via a mobile device is only going to continue to grow and with it, the importance of a solid mobile blogging experience. This is where I expect we will see the most improvement in the blogosphere over the next 12 months. Tumblr has already taken huge strides over the past 12 months improving their mobile apps on both iOS and Android. They also just launched a Windows mobile app.
The Tumblr mobile app from both a posting and consuming perspective is much better than WordPress and Blogger’s experience. This makes an even stronger argument if you plan to base you blog on these individual elements to get the readers attention. The official Tumblr, WordPress and Blogger apps are all free. I would recommend playing with them all first and [inaudible 30:15].
From a social standpoint, you can’t go wrong with any of the platforms. All include hosts to share content to Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Pinterest and other social networks. That’s common place these days. If you’re looking to build another community in a new channel, then you might want to consider Tumblr, wordpress.com or Blogger from a Google+ perspective.
As I mentioned earlier, Tumblr has been a social network since day one and they put a huge emphasis on discovery, tagging and content duration. Tumblr issues [inaudible 30:52] before Facebook did and popularized the act of free blogging. Much of the social activity and engagement on Tumblr happens within the Tumblr dashboard which is similar of high level to the Facebook newsfeed or Twitter stream. This is where you can see the blogs follow and post, like, reblog and comment on other blog posts.
As Tumblr increased in popularity, wordpress.com introduced similar social features. Given that Blogger is owned by Google, there have been enhancements over the years to integrate Blogger with Google+. In April of this year for example, Google+ comments can also appear in the comments section of the same blog post in Google.
Again, from a social standpoint, you can’t go wrong with any of these options. My advice is to turn your goals from a social standpoint and pick the platform that best meets these goals. In fact, that’s my advice in general. Make a list of your needs and a list of your [inaudible 31:49] and match up the platforms against your list. You might decide you need more than one blog or more than one platform. I’ve seen that a lot with WordPress and Tumblr. Either way, you can’t go wrong with any of these great platforms.
Thank you, Todd. If you’re interested in learning more, you can contact Search Mojo and get in touch with Sean McCusty in sales. Don’t forget, our next webinar will be on July 25, 2013 at 2:00pm, titled Christmas in July: Preparing Your Ecommerce Site Now for the Holidays. It will be presented by Tad Miller, Vice President of Accounts at Search Mojo and Adam Berke, President at AdRoll. You can register today at search-mojo.com/ecommerce.
If you’d like to connect with Kari or Todd through social media, here’s their information below. Now, we’ll take a few minutes for questions. What exactly is reblogging? Todd, do you want to answer that one?
Sure. Reblogging is the act of basically reposting someone else’s blog post onto your own. It’s similar to the re-tweet if you’re a Twitter user, but essentially if you’re following blogs, whether it’s Tumblr or wordpress.com, if you find a post that you would like to share with your audience, then with the click of a button it’s very easy to repost that blog post onto your own blog.
And the great thing about reblogging is that the source stays intact, so a link back to the original source will exist when you repost that on your own blog. It’s a great way to generate content easily and I recommend using it along with original content to keep up with your blogging schedule.
Thank you, Todd. Next, is there link benefit to reblogging?
Todd? Go ahead.
Yes. With reblogging, it linked back to the source, the original post does exist every time that post is reblogged onto another site or another blog. There is a definite advantage to be reblogged. That’s where content is king. The better and more high quality content that you’re posting that others can find, if that content is being reblogged, then it links back to that original blog post that you published will exist.
Great. This one’s for Kari. How do you ensure that a thumbnail of yourself appears on the Google search results?
That’s a great question. What you have to do first of all and we’ve got a lot of resources that I can point you to, additional resources to help you out with this, and in fact our CEO recently recorded a class which we can send a link out to you guys as well on authorship and the step by step for that.
The basic gist is first of all, you’ve got to have a Google+ profile, because that is how you hook up your blog to you, yourself as an author. I know a lot of people aren’t necessarily loving Google+. They don’t want to be on another social network. Oh my God, what am I going to do with all these social networks? Who’s on Google+? Authors are on Google+ and you’re going to have to have a Google+ profile, because ultimately it is Google’s social network.
You have to have that and whatever photo that you have associated with that profile is what will show up in search results next to your post in search. Get that set up. There’s some code that you will need to add to your site as well to ensure that everything is marked up properly on your site to get that thumbnail on there, and then you will need to include a link to your blog on your Google+ profile.
Like I say, there is actually a really good class on authorship that our CEO just recorded for online marketing institute, which I can send via Twitter on the Mojo webinar hashtag, so keep an eye out for that.
Thanks Kari. What are the best days to post blogs and to post to social media for B2B during the week and what is the best time during the day to post all of this?
I don’t know what Todd’s thoughts on that. I personally believe there’s not necessarily the best time, because I think it comes down to when your audience is online, because it’s going to be different for different industries. I think obviously when people are online is the best time to post it.
For our blog just as an example, we tend to post earlier in the day, because then that gives us enough time to promote it through social media throughout the day, but there’s not necessarily a best day or a best time. Also I think that when you are planning out your blog posts and planning out your schedule, obviously the more often you blog, the better off you are. You’re going to get more readers. The more basically you’re going to get out of your blog.
We tend to post three to five times a week here, but it comes down to your resources as well and I think that it’s probably a good idea to try and blog at least twice a week, but the key is to blog consistently. Don’t blog once a month or go in and blog two weeks and then wait two months and then not blog ever again or not blog for another six months or something like that. Just try and keep it consistent. Todd, I don’t know if you have any insights to add?
I definitely would echo all of those statements. The one thing I’ll add is with everyone basically connected almost 24/7 with mobile devices, the time of day is not as important as it was several years ago. I think it goes back to again, your audience. There’s a lot of activity on Tumblr for example at nights since the demographic kind of skews to a younger generation. I think it starts with your audience first and that’s how you should schedule your posts based on that.
Great. Thanks Todd. What about, what are the advantages setting up a blog versus posting the articles on my firm’s website? Kari, do you want to take that?
Sure, thanks. I think that all of the different platforms that Todd went through, those are really pretty user-friendly interfaces and they allow you to post pretty easily on a regular basis. I don’t know. Many websites might not have an easy to use CMS contact management system to easily post articles directly on the website. You can certainly do that, but a blog will allow you to have many different authors.
It’s easier for almost anyone to use and to go in there and very easily write something, click a button and publish it to the website. They don’t have to go through a lot of technical hoops and IT involved in any way. That’s probably what I would see as the main advantage of setting up a blog versus posting on a website.